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  1. #1
    lsachs's Avatar
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    Question Paste in new content, tables break

    I know I'm doing s-thing wrong, but why else would i be here. I'm working on a site that already has an existing table structure, CSS, JS functions, etc. Just trying to do a prototype of a form w/in the center body table. I built the form in another HTML file; (I'm not using any form functions at this pt. since it's just a prototype.) But after I paste this new form in, in between a new table I've created with a fresh table declaration, everything breaks.

    All the surrounding tables start to wrap wrong, the far left table ( just a gutter) winds up displaying too wide in D-weaver. The far right table, a navbar, winds up under everything, flush left. I can't understand why this happens when I don't see any broken tags. I also see a broken <TR> or <TD> tag that only appears when I paste this new content in, even tho I've checked to see there's no missing tags before I paste it in. I know there's something I'm doing wrong, but not sure what. Does D-weaver do this when pasting in something? I'm just summarizing; don't want to go into too much detail in this thread. Why wouldn't I see the broken tag before posting it? Thanks for your help all, in advance!

  2. #2
    QuietDean's Avatar
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    Hi there.

    Hard to tell without looking at your source code. Why don't you paste some here, or maybe if the site is online give us a link to look at?

    I am not very experienced in Dreamweaver, use text editors mainly, but looking at the source code should give us a clue.
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  3. #3
    lsachs's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply. I might post the page on my site, but I was wondering if anyone has any ideas about how to restrict the proprietary (corporate) information when posting this code. I can't really point anyone 2 the staging server as it's behind a firewall and the prototype is not released yet. That might be the only way I can have anyone view the code.

  4. #4
    QuietDean's Avatar
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    Ah, Thats makes it tricky.

    I would definitely not recommend posting corporate info on the web. It might be best if you replaced the text with some 'filler' text, then post it on the web.
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  5. #5
    benzden's Avatar
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    Clone the page, replace all the private information with asterisks and post it in public somewhere, so we can see what's happening.

    There are probably at least a half-dozen solutions to any problems encountered with <TABLE...>s - they being very powerful and flexible adjuncts to any web page.

  6. #6
    lsachs's Avatar
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    Okay folks, I have thoroughly blanked out any references to the company that might get me canned. Here's a couple points to mention:

    - there's some JS in there for the form, which i left in; it shouldn't affect display i believe. There's also JS for rollover functions, again, shouldn't have much to do w/this.
    - there's references to CSS's that may or may not be wreaking havoc w/this, but not sure.
    - the first link below is the survey as a standalone HTML file. (survey_only_generic.htm)
    - the second link is to the survey set into the full tables. Notice that the links at the bottom, "Company News & Events" etc. should be in the right column as right nav links.

    Thanks....in advance...

    www.coolpillows.com/Archive_html/survey_only_generic.htm
    www.coolpillows.com/Archive_html/generic_survey.htm

  7. #7
    QuietDean's Avatar
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    Didn't find anything hugely obvious, but here are some mistake which *might* be causing a problem -

    line 229 - <br> tag not contained within the table. Any tag outside of a table cell can 'jump' outside the table, cauing odd results.

    All the way thru - valign tags with 'center'. Center does not work with valign, has to be

    "TOP", "MIDDLE", "BOTTOM", "BASELINE"

    Line 231 - <table> tag outside of a table cell, again, can get odd results.

    Broken <tr> tag @ 260, started @ 249.

    Line 271 - again, broken <tr> tag

    <tr>
    271: <tr class=dkBlGr>
    272: <td colspan="3">

    In fact, there are broken <tr> tags all the way up to line 303.

    Line 312: <br> tag outside of table cell.

    Line 314: </table> but no </tr>

    Line 381: Text outside of a table cell, but within a table.

    That was just what was found on the 'original' table, the first link above. I would definately try to sort that lot out before pasting it anywhere else.

    Future Ref: I used the w3c validator to check the html : http://validator.w3.org/

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news
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  8. #8
    lsachs's Avatar
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    Thanks to all who helped. This partially resolved my problem. Since it IS a prototype, it doesn't have 2b perfect and I'm figuring out ways to clean it up. A lot of it goes back to throwing out old code and cleaning it up (or faking it for the p-type and cleaning it up later :-P ).

    But this raises a problem I know a lot of newbies have, particularly those who have a certain kind of brain (i ferget if it's right or left or middle). What's a good way to understand tables? Everytime you go to a tutorial they do some simple explanation with a 6 cell table, 2X3 with one colspan and a thick black bevelled border. In the real world, tables are complex, multifarious and edge in all manner of angled images to make tabs, corners and balloon animals (well, not really).

    I know, also, tables are not as significant thanks to CSS, but we still have to grasph this world of TRs & TDs no matter. Where's the deepthink tutorials that explain it on another level? Thanks again...and thanks so much fer listening......g'night!

    CP

  9. #9
    QuietDean's Avatar
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    I've never seen a really 'tough' table tutorial, to be honest.

    I have found that the only way to really understand tables is to debug someones elses. You have seen table code, its a nightmare to read. And thats just your own. Now try someone elses table code! So much harder to read.
    If I see any horribly complex table code I will post it here
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  10. #10
    lsachs's Avatar
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    Actually, that would be helpful. And, yes, I'm often pulling down code from a site I know and examining it, breaking and fixing tables, etc. But it isn't always clear why things are the way they are, esp. when I can't talk to the developers.

    As a regular contributor to the boards here, have you seen any extensive threads that discuss this issue? I might start a new topic and see what comes up, but lemme' know if you've seen any discussions on complex tables, tabs, cutting up images, etc. Thanks again.....

  11. #11
    QuietDean's Avatar
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    Cutting up images was discussed briefly here -

    http://www.ahfb2000.com/webmaster_he...ting+up+images

    But none of the other subject have been really ripped apart, so go ahead and start some threads..
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  12. #12
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    Learn about TABLEs as you go - otherwise, you'll forget most of what's in the tutorials, anyway. Tables are like hammers and screwdrivers - they'll do anything you can think of "creatively" to apply them.

    They allow one to think outside the box - funny since they are always rectangular when made visible.

    The very first useful technique I learned with tables was to center text and images on a page with blank space at the margins merely with <CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=92% BORDER=0 ...> or
    <TABLE ALIGN=center WIDTH=92% BORDER=0 ...>. (I prefer the former over the latter because the =center is oftentimes confused with =middle - the <CENTER> ... </CENTER> tags are less prone to confusion.

    edited to remove the tags at the beginning, code within the beginning text messes the front page. D
    Last edited by HTML; 11-05-2002 at 05:54 PM.

  13. #13
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    I do a lot with embedded tables and sometimes when I'm debugging, I set the border to different widths for the different tables in order to see what table is messing up. I've also found (at least for me) that indenting the code helps me see the table structure better. Then, when it's working, I remove the indents. I've never seen a real good tutorial on advanced table topics, but I have learned a lot from looking at the HTML of different sites.



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