View Poll Results: Have you heard of this before?
- 753. You may not vote on this poll
Yes, I had heard of this issue before and I'm outraged!
Yes, I've heard of this before and frankly couldn't care less.
No, this is the first time I've heard of this and I'm outraged!
No, this is the first time I've heard of this and frankly couldn't care less.
Thread: Ezula - Kazza
09-08-2001, 01:48 PM #166Let our affiliate, Southern Belle Software, do the viewing of your site and email you some screen shots and results.
This effort is based on volunteerism, imagine if everybody followed this example. How much would be charged for all of the banners? how much should be charged for letter templates? How about fix downloads? What do you think Jim, Steve, Doug or myself should charge for having the forums?
I ask one last time to please reconsider.
09-08-2001, 02:24 PM #167
Dave, the least you can do is portray it the way it exists:
<li>Install the programs yourself and see how they affect your site; or
<li>Let our affiliate, <a href="http://www.southernbellesoftware.com/sbs/scumware.htm">Southern Belle Software</a>, do the viewing of your site and email you some screen shots and results.
You will NOTE, that is not the only option, and it's not even the FIRST option.
And, as I've said, I will happily re-consider when someone volunteers to take the responsibility off my hands.
09-08-2001, 02:31 PM #168Just my opinion, if you cannot make a profit charging $30.00 and paying somebody $5.35 an hour, you should consider a new business plan
This effort is based on volunteerism, imagine if everybody followed this example.
09-08-2001, 02:48 PM #169
There you go Dave. It's off the site.
Just don't ask me to volunteer to do screenshots for anyone. I'll be removing the scumware from all my machines today.
09-08-2001, 06:08 PM #170
I applaud you for removing it.
I appreciate the fact that you want to do so much to help with this issue, and I admire it very much. You must remember, the key to victory lies in everybody doing what is possible for them to do, not in a few people doing more than they humanly can. There is no shame in not being able to "do it all", none of us can, and none of us expect you to be any different.
Yes, with so many different "factions" it makes it very hard to get many people organized, this is why I felt it was so important to put aside egos and commercialism. We all knew what would happen if we did not, and now we see it.
Relax, don't put so much preassure on yourself to do it all
09-08-2001, 08:22 PM #171
My single purpose in that was to say "I can't do it for free anymore folks." After over 200 requests for free screenshots, without even a thank you from many, I couldn't keep the manpower behind it for nothing.
end of Quote:
Of course you can't do it for free Rox, and I agree Mark Joyners newsletter is a good read having said that, I would add #1.)
If someone requires screenshots and is not prepared to download the plugin I see no problem in asking for a fee.
We are all fighting this scumware in our own ways, and it does eat into the time we spend on our businesses and families.
This has gone on for, I believe over a month, that's a long time to leave our businesses unattended and it's going to be an even longer time before it's resolved.
We are rapidly approaching a point where we need to look at the situation and say, yes we have done our best to enlighten the other webmasters,we done 18 hour marrathons, screenshots, numerous postings, emails and telephone calls, and too many without a word of thanks, and on top of it our businesses and families are suffering.
As individuals we need to strike a balance or else face the possiblity of burnout, and if the solution entails charging for screenshots for anyone who isn't prepared to load this junk in their machine, fine.
Sorry Dave, I have to agree with Rox here, I've done some thankless hard yards too.
#2 The hall of fames, personally I find this a little distasteful but once again, if people need this as a prize to motivate them, I don't have a problem with it.
And the newsletters, once again I think it inappropriate on a page where you're signing a "noble" petition but, once again, if that's what it takes to have marketers of this calibre on our side...I'm happy
This is the first time the webmaster community has rallied together to right a wrong, our soldier numbers are growing everyday without the direction of an appointed general.
A difficult situation, I'd like to see an other army tackle an enemy as the concerned webmasters have over the past months without the clear direction of a general.
There have been differences of opinion and many more will arise. The only way we can resolve them is to recognize we are all unique individuals in unique circumstances, talk our differences out, don't let them divide us in our common aim and each get back to the awareness campaign.
So that's my tuppence worth
09-08-2001, 10:02 PM #172
New to posting here, but not at all new to this topic and have been reading this board for a couple of weeks.
I just have to say, imo, there is a clear difference between price-gouging in a crisis and expecting to be paid for services in difficult times. This is not a life-threatening situation where it is a sin to charge for water... this is an extremely difficult business situation where being paid for services is not ignoble or dishonorable.
It is a very personal decision on the part of each participant what they choose to do for free (or at a loss) and what they choose to charge for... Roxanne has gone above and beyond the call of duty and if webmasters are not willing to pay for screen shots of their own sites (or not willing to download the software for themselves)... well, how serious are they about this situation? The ONLY thing Roxanne was going to charge for was a superfluous service that really does nothing to further the cause in general (she already had over 200 screen shots, there is a saturation point for the general cause).
I think we are on dangerous ground when we try to enforce our own standards of volunteerism on each other in this cause. Should forum owners be asked to remove all advertising from the pages where scumware discussions are taking place because I don't have advertising on my scumware pages? Absolutely not.
We are all in this together -- and we each have to give what we are comfortable giving... and that should be enough for everyone.
09-08-2001, 10:45 PM #173
I wanted to apologize if I offended anyone.
I also wanted to say a couple of things for clarification, and I will word it so as not to offend anybody because I am not trying to do that and I realize everybody is putting in long hours for this cause and I appreciate that.
I agree Mark Joyners newsletter is a good read having said that, I would add #1I *bought* his 1001 Killer Internet Marketing Tactics, and get his newsletter; did before all this came up. If you don't subscribe to his newsletter, then you are missing a LOT of good information.
I don't disagree with those statements you made, it may very well be a fantastic newsletter that you think everybody should subscribe to - but you might have missed my original point about that issue.
My only point about that newsletter (on the petition against eZula) is that in the first place a petition is not a place for advertising, period. On top of that, I don't think forcing a newsletter through an automatically checked checkbox is the right message to send to people we are trying to organize for a worthy cause (normally I do not object to automatic checkboxes for newsletters on a web site, but this is a global petition for a non commercial cause so I think it's a tad inappropriate in this case).
It's like boycotting beef in sympathy for some worthy cause, and then eating a nice steak each night when we think nobody is looking.
We can't complain about TopText being automatically checked unless we hold ourselves to that same standard. Of course, TopText is not automatically checked anymore because we complained about that, but that doesn't mean it's okay for us to do that now to exploit this cause, does it?
Also, another point is that when I *personally* think of a petition I think of a piece of paper that is like the "holy of holies".
I think of a petition as a piece of paper that has only ONE major issue that people are agreeing to when they sign it (one major issue with subparts of that issue). A piece of paper with no hidden agendas, no commercial agendas, a piece of paper for the people that the people sign for a single worthy cause only.
But how can a congressman, the media, or Microsoft take a petition seriously if 50% of the "signature agreement" is to sign up for a newsletter about web marketing. The signature on that petition is for TWO separate agendas, not one.
In my opinion it just dilutes the 'affirmative assent' to the petition and waters it down, and the automatic checking of the checkbox places a cloud of commercialism inside of a VERY SERIOUS GLOBAL petition which is to me the "holy of holies".
Once again, the quality of the newsletter was never an issue just like the perceived quality of TopText by the public is not an issue with us (it doesn't matter how great the public thinks TopText really is, we still don't agree with eZula's/kaZaa's guerilla marketing of TopText, right?).
I have noticed something creeping into our arguments, and I wanted to point it out, it's just an observation.
We make a statement to the press and to the world that the quality of TopText (or any such program) is not a viable argument for eZula to use as an excuse to force it on people without an affirmative assent, yet we are saying that we can use that same tactic for some of our own newsletters because the quality of our newsletters is so high that we think the whole world should subscribe. eZula thinks the same thing about their software, they THINK the whole world should have it but that is not an excuse, right?
I am seeing a double standard developing under our noses, but again, it's just my own observation and I realize it won't change anybody else's opinion.
Anyway, that is just my opinion and I'm sure not many others agree, and that is okay since we are all entitled to our opinions and I am not looking to start an argument, just a "healthy discussion".
As for the other issue, I wanted to apologize for offending Roxanne.
I also wanted to say that I agree with Dave's point where he said that we should not try to do more than we can handle, and we should not feel an obligation to try to do everything because the cause has many allies and only through uniting can we make it happen.
09-09-2001, 06:13 AM #174
Hi everyone --
If you have a spare minute lingering around, it would be great to invest that in the Gladiator project.
- The First-Line Gladiator Partners
Anticipating on the day Gladiator gets released, I'm building a list of premium partners (Web site owners) that'll support the Gladiator attack on Scumware.
Read more, and find the application form at http://www.whirlywiryweb.com/gladiator/partnerapps.asp
- The Gladiator interface
I made a short story of what the visitor will see of Gladiator. I need your input to check whether this interface is acceptable and not too difficult for users to understand. http://www.whirlywiryweb.com/gladiator/wiki.cgi?PrototypeInterface
Dave, is it considered okay to use this thread as a contribution-puller for the Gladiator project?
Last edited by HTML; 03-20-2007 at 01:29 PM.
- The First-Line Gladiator Partners
09-09-2001, 09:54 AM #175
As long as this is opt-in only, and is not of charge to the end user I am all in favor of it.
Due to the way the AHFB forum threads are shown on the front page, and shown on other sites such as stopscum.com, starting a new thread in this same category would put it in front of even more eyes
09-09-2001, 01:37 PM #176
RF, GREAT work!
Your user interface is wonderful. I think it will be incumbent on the operator of the website to explain what they are going to see and how the program functions. Perhaps we can develop a "standard" description for everyone to use so we maintain consistency.
I wasn't a bit worried when I saw those screens, but many of the less technically inclined may be intimidated. We'll have to allay those fears.
You have done a wonderful job!!!!
Except, tell me how I can help you. Is there anything I can do to make things easier for you? And, I'm still waiting to hear from you on how to help defer your cost for that certificate. Checkbook and credit card ready, tell me where to send it!
09-09-2001, 02:40 PM #177
Great you like the interface Roxanne.
And well, there's one thing you can do. Actually, anyone a bit fluent in English and familiar with current scumware can help:
As you know Gladiator scans for multiple scumware 'brands'. Before uninstallation, Gladiator enumerates the scumware found, and a small description of each one (2,3 lines each). A matter of providing information, so the user can make a knowledgeable decision.
So I'm in need for volunteers that are willing to list current scumware, and describe those in a clear, brief, user-oriented way.
Go to http://www.whirlywiryweb.com/gladiator/wiki.cgi?ScumWare , hit 'Edit' at the bottom and write away.
Anyone that can help, will be rewarded by the World's eternal erhm.... 'gratitude'.
Not really, I'm afraid.
Last edited by HTML; 03-20-2007 at 01:29 PM.
09-09-2001, 03:24 PM #178
RF, I did Surf+ and Gator. Can you check them out and see if they are OK? I'll do TopText if everyone thinks these descriptions are fair.
I do think it's important that we leave off "pet names" like scumware, etc. and label these programs what they are -- software products. They are insidious enough without labellling them with new terminology. Yes? No?
Let me know and I'll hit TopText if I'm going in the right direction.
09-09-2001, 04:02 PM #179
Great work Roxanne -- please go ahead *grin*.
Also, if you or anybody is aware of more kinds of this sneaky software, or have more information about it, submit you contribution to the
09-09-2001, 04:28 PM #180
OK, TopText done too. This one may need some critiquing; I was fairly tough here. Once again, my goal is an *accurate* description and I may not have gone there with this one.
Just so you know, we're in development of a Flash presentation and these descriptions are being repeated there. My idea being that if we repeat it often enough, it can be understood.