View Poll Results: Have you heard of this before?
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Yes, I had heard of this issue before and I'm outraged!
Yes, I've heard of this before and frankly couldn't care less.
No, this is the first time I've heard of this and I'm outraged!
No, this is the first time I've heard of this and frankly couldn't care less.
Thread: Ezula - Kazza
08-28-2001, 11:18 PM #106
Rhonda, he didn't mention wuas.org because *I* didn't mention it.
I'm not looking for press, fame, or fortune -- I'm looking to stop scumware; nothing more.
08-28-2001, 11:37 PM #107
Great going Roxanne!
The points that you made in both your email and the phone call are really the heart of this issue, and even I have failed to realize that up until now. I can see that a whole lot of other discussions, even ones that I engaged in, were not really the core of this issue.
Your point about the Home Depot analogy is about as perfect and well explained as anything could be, it "hits the nail on the head".
That is THE core of our issue I think. Forget about permission from users, forget about user ages, forget about users being tricked to installing it - your analogy and issue still stands tallest regardless of how the other issues are judged.
Your comment about how surf+ is not gone but just underground was great since it doesn't sound like Jim or anybody else there seemed to realize that yet.
Also, your demonstration of how the invisible links are not leading consumers to "relevant" pages full of content that relates to the keyword clicked on was another fantastic point, showing how users are really being diverted to half-%ss promo search pages with minimal keyword relationships.
All in all, I think you should be the one invited to do talk shows for our cause from now on, because even on the GHF boards there are comments about how Jim really was beaten up during that talk show and how he failed to represent us in the heat of battle, but everything said about you was very positive!
A nice victory for us, this will help to spread the word.
08-28-2001, 11:38 PM #108
Anybody want to give me odds Jim doesn't stream *me*?????
Hey mouse, I'm glad I'm on your side too.
08-28-2001, 11:45 PM #109
08-28-2001, 11:48 PM #110
lol! I've been sniffing around and haven't seen or heard anything yet...but it sure is going to get interesting... a little comic relief, think we deserve it
08-29-2001, 12:01 AM #111All in all, I think you should be the one invited to do talk shows for our cause from now on
Folks, I'm just a logical kind of person; we don't need to create law here. We have laws against this practice and we have to leave the emotion at the keyboard and speak from logic, not emotion.
We can't take this argument to folks who can't get their head around this. It's simple, we need to explain in terms *everyone* can understand.
The brick and mortar store is just logical. Would you appreciate someone walking up to you in a store and telling you to go down the street? Would you appreciate someone coming up to you in McDonald's and enticing you to Burger King? Would McDonalds????
Folks can get their head around that and I haven't said one word about a website. I'm just thinking in terms of that 60 year old judge, who is terrified of that "computer thingamagiggy" and won't rule in matters he can't understand.
08-29-2001, 12:11 AM #112
That's it in a nutshell!
Got to tell you, over at cj forums they have been sending out newsletters alerting folks to the problem.
In my swag of mail today, think I received about a dozen emails all alerting me to the problem, great to see the word is getting out!
08-29-2001, 12:26 AM #113It sounds to me like you made more of an impact in a few minutes then others did in an hour and a half (guessing, I have no clue how long anybody was on)
That's it in a nutshell!
OK, it's after 1:00 AM here and I'm off to bed. I'm going to change the wuas.org page tomorrow and follow the KISS tradition there too. We've got too much "techno babble" in the explanation.
It's been a good day, folks! We've got a loooonnng way to go, but we're under a full head of steam.
08-29-2001, 12:39 AM #114We have laws against this practice and we have to leave the emotion at the keyboard and speak from logic, not emotion.
But I agree with you, we need to lay out the facts for people to see in a clear and rational way.
Just as a side note for future radio shows done by other members in the future, I was thinking that a good analogy to give the talk show host, in the case of radio shows, would be to briefly explain it like this:
Guest talking to radio host:
What if eZula started selling new radios, and struck a partnership deal to get these radios into all stores selling radios to the public. (To the point that a majority of the world could own these radios in a short time).
And these radios all had the technological ability to mask radio ads from every major radio station, and to switch all radio commericals "in real time" to eZula's advertisers of choice.
Then ask the radio show host if their station would consider this to be an acceptable form of using technology? And would they endorse this method of advertising?
I bet they would stall and not know what to say, especially if they were playing devils advocate and were supposed to be siding against the cause for the inteview.
Uh, oh, Uh, time for a commercial!
Because without the public hearing the ads, the radio station woud lose advertisers and they would be shut down.
There is supposed to be some new radio show in Seattle later this week I think. I am crossing my fingers that Jim does good in that interview, we need some more good press for the cause.
08-29-2001, 06:44 AM #115This software, commonly termed "scumware," installs itself without warning, and once operational it alters the way the victim views the World Wide Web.
This software places links on every webpage the victim views. These links often lead to pornography and gambling sites.
If we go around touting our main argument as combatting "reputation-degrading links" to porn and gambling sites, then as soon as they cut off their porn and gambling site clients we would look somewhat foolish because we would have to change our argument and keep fighting since our goal really has nothing to do with ridding ourselves of unwanted porn and gambling site links, our goal is to rid ourselves of all unwanted links to any competitor or even non competitor.
I know you already said you are going to alter the site to make it simpler today, but I just wanted to make these suggestions.
08-29-2001, 09:28 AM #116
we were talking about invisible linking before over at Doug's forum and they are finding invisible links too.
I don't have it installed, so I can't check can anyone confirm on this side?
Here is the thread of their findings -
Last edited by HTML; 03-20-2007 at 01:23 PM.
08-29-2001, 12:49 PM #117
Yes, every word, on every page, on every site is now an invisible link for Surf+.
Here's part of the view source from the page I was redirected to:
srcURL = "http://www.filemix.net/cgi-bin/tz.cgi?run=fetch&u3=*http://188.8.131.52/xmlv3.asp?Q=enhance&CID=22053&R=1&QT=C&CK=999105340&IP=184.108.40.206";
srcURL = "http://www.filemix.net/cgi-bin/tz.cgi?run=fetch&u3=*http://partners.mamma.com/SpediaP?query=enhance&rpp=200";
srcURL = "http://www.filemix.net/cgi-bin/tz.cgi?run=fetch&u3=*http://partners.mygeek.com/search.jsp?partnerid=96045&format=xml3&query=enhance"
The partners are mamma.com and mygeek.com, they are tracking my IP and even though I clicked on the word "enhance" I was taken to www.900numbers.com from their page.
BTW, way back when this first started, I discovered a link to spedia and filemix. Even though the whois database had little information for filemix.net, the Admin Contact name and email for both of them was the same.
7677 Oakport St.
Oakland, CA 96421
Contact: Boris Panteleev (removed)
NOTE: himel.com, filemix.com, filemix.net is also admin and billing
contact by this same contact....
I think this invisible link thing makes matters worse, and may well give us an admission, i.e.:
The invisible link means they are getting pretty smart to our complaints. The invisible link means they are finding a way around the copyright issues; the are no longer defacing the content. Taking off the green may have shut us out of the "altering copyrighted materials" argument.
Last edited by HTML; 03-20-2007 at 01:07 PM.
08-29-2001, 01:08 PM #118
IMHO the copyright issue has always been a little iffy. I see the main problem being one of "unjust enrichment". In other words, by infecting my site, using my writtin words located on my site, they are doing harm to my ability to make a living, while all the time they are earning a profit.
08-29-2001, 01:30 PM #119IMHO the copyright issue has always been a little iffy. I see the main problem being one of "unjust enrichment". In other words, by infecting my site, using my writtin words located on my site, they are doing harm to my ability to make a living, while all the time they are earning a profit.
Now, all this is US law....the question is does US law even apply here? KaZaa is in Holland!!! Filemix.net appears to be operating out of the Caribbean....
So, let's ask our non-American friends...
In Australia, or England, or anywhere else in the world....
In a brick and mortar store, would your legal system allow someone to come in to your store and actively "solicit" your customers to go elsewhere? If not, why not?
08-29-2001, 04:25 PM #120
Argh, I forgot to pay my phone bill last month (really, I thought I'd paid all the bills), and couldn't dial out the last day and a half.
RoxanneJ, I would like to email that screenshot to FindWhat, and post about it at cj. I hope the screenshot's not too graphic (remind me not to preview the email with the kids around).
Hey RRR, how are ya? (aka LittleOne from way back when 50megs gave you 50megs of free web space).
It's getting late here, so I'm off to bed for the night. Newsletter was sent long ago, links on index page to Dave's page explaining the problem...next item for real life action?webmistress
Spicy quotes supplied upon request